Pilgrimage On Shikoku Island

Online forum for discussions related to the 88 temple pilgrimage on Shikoku, Japan.


    Standard facilities in lodging

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    Shikoku Henro Trail
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    Standard facilities in lodging

    Post by Shikoku Henro Trail on Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:17 am

    Originally posted by several members between April and December 2017.
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    FlyingDutch

    « Thread started on: Apr 9th, 2017, 10:04am »
    While searching for possible minshuku to stay and noticing the difference in the accomodation they offer, I started asking myself if a shower is always available or not.

    So far it has never been explicitly mentioned, so I wonder if it is a "always available" or a "never available".

    what is your experience?

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    MakotoUeno

    « Reply #1 on: Apr 10th, 2017, 3:56pm »
    on Apr 9th, 2017, 10:04am, FlyingDutch wrote:
    While searching for possible minshuku to stay and noticing the difference in the accomodation they offer, I started asking myself if a shower is always available or not.

    So far it has never been explicitly mentioned, so I wonder if it is a "always available" or a "never available".

    what is your experience?



    A shower will "always" be available in standard paid lodging (minshuku, ryokan, hotel), as a part of their bathing facilities.

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    slc

    « Reply #2 on: Apr 10th, 2017, 6:53pm »
    You likely won't have one in your room, but there will be one available, but it will probably be a Japanese style shower where you have to sit, and it will probably also be public. There will also be a bath. I do know of one Minshuku that doesn't have bathing facilities which is Sudachi-kan after Temple 12, but they drive you to Kamiyama onsen and give you an entry ticket as part of your stay. Kamiyama onsen is amazing, by the way.

    Japanese people bathe at night, so some baths may only be open at night, and/or have specific hours for men and women.

    Business hotels usually have more western showers in each room and may have a public bath in addition.

    Edit: Sudachi-Kan is after temple 12.

    « Last Edit: Apr 10th, 2017, 9:43pm by slc »

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    kotoko

    « Reply #3 on: Apr 11th, 2017, 04:47am »
    Sudachi-kan does have a shower, but it's very, very basic and (at least when I went in March) cold (hot water, yes, but no room heater). I could not go to the onsen due to female problems so they let me use their shower instead. I would highly suggest taking the onsen suggestion.

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    slc

    « Reply #4 on: Apr 11th, 2017, 07:19am »
    on Apr 11th, 2017, 04:47am, kotoko wrote:
    Sudachi-kan does have a shower, but it's very, very basic and (at least when I went in March) cold (hot water, yes, but no room heater).


    Ah, I see. I hope you get to try the onsen in the future.

    ---

    I want to add that bathing is very accessible on the pilgrimage even to campers. There are onsen all along the route, many offering discounts to pilgrims. Many hotels and minshuku with large baths allow non-guests to use them for a small fee. Internet cafes in the cities often have showers, and even some of the free lodgings have bathing facilities. There's also a few free footbaths in public places.

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    Janet

    « Reply #5 on: May 24th, 2017, 3:46pm »
    Minshuku: always a shower and o-furo, always soap and shampoo and towels, almost always a toothbrush, yukata and laundry.
    Business hotels: all of the above plus always toothbrush and yukata or pajamas (!).
    If you're just planning on staying at minshuku and hotels, you can leave all that stuff out of your pack.
    Zenkonyado and tsuyado: variable. BYO everything, just in case.

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    slc

    « Reply #6 on: Nov 13th, 2017, 11:01pm »
    on Nov 13th, 2017, 10:37pm, Alexferguson wrote:
    You likely won't have one in your room, yet there will be one accessible, yet it will most likely be a Japanese style shower where you need to sit, and it will presumably additionally be open. There will likewise be a shower. *spam link* I do know about one Minshuku that doesn't have showering offices which are Sudachi-kan after Temple 12, however, they drive you to Kamiyama onsen and give you a passage ticket as a component of your remain.



    That sure looks like exactly what I said, slightly reworded, and with irrelevant spam added in. I'd be beyond happy to volunteer as an assistant anti-spam admin for this site.

    « Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2017, 11:03pm by slc »

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    tneva82

    « Reply #7 on: Nov 15th, 2017, 11:19pm »
    on Nov 13th, 2017, 11:01pm, slc wrote:
    That sure looks like exactly what I said, slightly reworded, and with irrelevant spam added in. I'd be beyond happy to volunteer as an assistant anti-spam admin for this site.


    Yeah bots have taken annoying habit of copying people's post and adding spam link. Alas this forum attracts lots of spam bots sad

    Anti-spam admin/mod would be nice but the forum platform seems rather old. Wonder if it even allows admin to give less-comprehensive admin rights to others or would only way for others to help there be for admin give basically full admin rights? Which admin might understandably be wary of doing.

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    slc

    « Reply #8 on: Nov 16th, 2017, 12:52am »
    This board will allow adding a moderator who can delete posts and ban users. That alone is a lot of trust to put into somebody, but you need that much access to kill the spam. I can demonstrate that I've completed the Shikoku Pilgrimage, and have worked as a 'moderator' of sorts for a fortune 500 company. I have no interest in moderating anybody other than the spam-bots. I don't want to see them drown out the legitimate discussion. It's just an offer to help.

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    tneva82

    « Reply #9 on: Nov 16th, 2017, 02:07am »
    on Nov 16th, 2017, 12:52am, slc wrote:
    This board will allow adding a moderator who can delete posts and ban users. That alone is a lot of trust to put into somebody, but you need that much access to kill the spam. I can demonstrate that I've completed the Shikoku Pilgrimage, and have worked as a 'moderator' of sorts for a fortune 500 company. I have no interest in moderating anybody other than the spam-bots. I don't want to see them drown out the legitimate discussion. It's just an offer to help.


    Well if the forum software allows for it that would be nice. Maybe send PM to admin so he might notice it easier. Would certainly be nice! Wouldn't mind taking the job myself either(I hate spammers) but whom admin feels like trusting with job is of course up to him.

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    slc

    « Reply #10 on: Nov 19th, 2017, 12:50am »
    It would also be possible to add more than one moderator. I'll probably message the administrator if there's no response in a few days.

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    Shikoku Henro Trail

    « Reply #11 on: Nov 30th, 2017, 10:23am »
    Got the PM. Thanks. Have just spent about 30 minutes cleaning out some of the spam and deleting the users. You are right, offering admin rights to someone I don't know, isn't always a wise idea. How do you propose to prove you've done the Henro? And that proving that would mean you're completely trustworthy?

    Dave

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    slc

    « Reply #12 on: Nov 30th, 2017, 6:35pm »
    I can prove I've done the henro by:

    Pointing to my blog of the pilgrimage
    https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/A1h5RB

    Pointing to my personal website which includes pictures of me at henro sites (under photos)
    http://lukeclayton.net

    I can prove to you I am this person by PMing you a PayPal transcation ID for my purchase of Shikoku Japan 88 Route Guide and Visiting The Sacred Sites of Kukai from you in Sept 2015.

    I can send a photograph of myself holding my stamped nokyocho open to any page(s) of your choice (I have all stamps except Mt. Koya)

    I can point out that a custom printed osamefuda including my name, city and email address is pasted on the wall inside the new extremely nice henro hut very close to temple 82.

    As for proving I am completely trustworthy, that is of course impossible. I can assure you that I greatly appreciate this resource and only want to help it. I can tell you that I do not like censoring people one bit and would only be willing to delete obvious spam. I can give you my telephone number and you can call me to get a better idea of my character. I'm unsure what I could do beyond that but would be willing to go along with any ideas you might have.

    Let me know if you'd like me to move forward with these steps.

    Thanks,
    Luke

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    tneva82

    « Reply #13 on: Nov 30th, 2017, 11:07pm »
    on Nov 30th, 2017, 10:23am, Shikoku Henro Trail wrote:
    Got the PM. Thanks. Have just spent about 30 minutes cleaning out some of the spam and deleting the users.


    Thanks for the effort! That's 30 minutes that I'm sure could have been spent better without those cursed spammer bots.

    Efforts spent appreciated.

    And for slc thanks for the link to the blog. Seems I have missed it before.

    « Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2017, 11:07pm by tneva82 »

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    Shikoku Henro Trail

    « Reply #14 on: Dec 5th, 2017, 08:24am »
    smiley

    Luke, I certainly don't doubt your credentials as a henro, but think I am going to ask someone I've known for a long time to help out instead. He's been on the forum since it started, I think, and goes by the name HenroDon.

    If I decide I need more help, I will get back in touch with you. My concern, just so you know, isn't whether or not you will be too censorious, but whether it is right for me to give an unknown person access to every members personal email addresses. I'm really touchy about that after a bot stole all the addresses off the web site about 6 years ago and spammed all of them.

    I do appreciate and thank you for the offer.

    Dave




    Shikoku Henro Trail
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    Join date : 2018-04-12
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    Re: Standard facilities in lodging

    Post by Shikoku Henro Trail on Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:21 am

    Originally posted by several members in December 2017.
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    slc

    « Reply #15 on: Dec 5th, 2017, 09:45am »
    No worries at all, and I fully understand the email thing. I didn't even think of that, but it makes perfect sense. I was just getting a little worried the bots would overwhelm the place and end the legitimate discussion. Thanks so much for keeping it going! smiley

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    tneva82

    « Reply #16 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 06:11am »
    Whee lots to think about regarding moderation and guess it depends on software. Forum I moderated before was set so that I had zero access to private info of users so that wasn't worry there. Worst I could do was delete messages out of spite and iirc those were still there for moderators and could be restored.

    Interesting. Always interesting to find aboup how things work(says info addict smiley )

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    Shikoku Henro Trail

    « Reply #17 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 09:32am »
    Smile

    It's probable that if I took the time to really learn how this forum works I could set it up so that a new admin doesn't have access to personal information. There are three levels of moderators, global moderators, and administrators that I can choose from.

    Since right now I don't want to take the time to figure out what does and does not give access to personal information, i'm just giving Don full admin rights. I trust him like a brother.

    And he'll have a test right away. I see several more spams just showed up so will let him delete them and the user. It's a repeat user I notice. Wonder why they are so persistent?

    Dave

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    slc

    « Reply #18 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 2:05pm »
    on Dec 6th, 2017, 09:32am, Shikoku Henro Trail wrote:
    Smile

    It's probable that if I took the time to really learn how this forum works I could set it up so that a new admin doesn't have access to personal information. There are three levels of moderators, global moderators, and administrators that I can choose from.

    Since right now I don't want to take the time to figure out what does and does not give access to personal information, i'm just giving Don full admin rights. I trust him like a brother.

    And he'll have a test right away. I see several more spams just showed up so will let him delete them and the user. It's a repeat user I notice. Wonder why they are so persistent?

    Dave



    It's probably not an actual human posting the spam, but a computer program, which can unfortunately be endlessly persistent with no human effort spent.

    There's some information about moderator abilities here:
    http://support.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=faq&action=display&num=1053977629

    It's not clear if moderators have a heightened ability to see email addresses or not. If a person's email address is not 'hidden' by the user anybody can see it. For example, I can see your email address and tneva82's email address by clicking your usernames, but I cannot see the address of the topic creator, FlyingDutch. Creating a test moderator account and clicking on usernames will tell you if moderators can see hidden email addresses or not.

    But honestly, to be fully effective a moderator should be able to see email addresses. The best way to stop the spam bots is to ban their username, email and IP address, as is laid out here:
    http://support.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=faq&action=display&num=1053979963

    There is also a censored words list somewhere. It may be possible to impede the spam bots by not allowing posts with the word 'essay' for example.

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    tneva82

    « Reply #19 on: Dec 7th, 2017, 02:12am »
    on Dec 6th, 2017, 2:05pm, slc wrote:
    It's probably not an actual human posting the spam, but a computer program, which can unfortunately be endlessly persistent with no human effort spent.


    Yup. It's very unlikely to be actual human effort. Too inefficient for effort/gain.

    Quote:
    But honestly, to be fully effective a moderator should be able to see email addresses. The best way to stop the spam bots is to ban their username, email and IP address, as is laid out here:
    http://support.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=faq&action=display&num=1053979963


    Would that be REALLY essential though? Couldn't software button have ability to ban those without showing personal info? At least if I would be developing forum software I would put button "ban email" to user's page for moderator which would ban it but do it in background. Moderator wouldn't see it. Similarly moderator sending email to user would go through forum software so he would send mail from forum page with response address being forum's own address so moderator would see replies through forum page.

    Albeit that's more work for developing forum software but that's how I would go around it. Maybe it has problems I haven't considered. Never had particular need to develop own forum software smiley

    Quote:
    There is also a censored words list somewhere. It may be possible to impede the spam bots by not allowing posts with the word 'essay' for example.


    That needs to taken carefully though or you end up innocent mails appearing needlessly. I could see somebody wanting to post legit mail refering to essay about Shikoku pilgrimage for example.

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    slc

    « Reply #20 on: Dec 7th, 2017, 03:00am »
    on Dec 7th, 2017, 02:12am, tneva82 wrote:
    Would that be REALLY essential though? Couldn't software button have ability to ban those without showing personal info?



    What you're describing is certainly possible to write if you are creating software. The administrator of this site can't rewrite the conforums.com software though. Conforums does what it does, and that's all it does. A test moderator account can be used to find out exactly what it does. I'd guess moderators can see email addresses, but I don't know.


    on Dec 7th, 2017, 02:12am, tneva82 wrote:
    That needs to taken carefully though or you end up innocent mails appearing needlessly. I could see somebody wanting to post legit mail refering to essay about Shikoku pilgrimage for example.


    Yes it does. If this is done there needs to be some way for people to find out which word(s) is/are blocked. A search of the forum shows our posts right here are the only (non-deleted) ones ever made with the word essay, so it doesn't seem like a big issue, but it would annoy the one person in the future who wants to legitimately use the word.

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    Shikoku Henro Trail

    « Reply #21 on: Dec 7th, 2017, 08:09am »
    This is all a very interesting discussion, but I've just never felt the need OR the desire to get that involved in the moderating efforts.

    My goal with the forum was to get other henro talking to themselves, as opposed to everyone sending me email and asking me questions. I don't mind the email, I just don't want my opinion on everything to be the final word on anything. There are as many opinions on the way to do the Henro as there are people walking it.

    For the longest time, the forum changed nothing. People posted questions and when no one (or very, very few)responded I posted my opinion. When I went on strike and stopped posting it seems others, like yourselves, finally stepped in and started offering their opinions. I AM VERY HAPPY. smiley

    When I started I said I was going to censor nothing but hate, disrespect and spam. And the spam isn't really all that bad, IMO. It got overwhelming lately, but I think that's because I was in Japan for a month and a half and didn't even look at the forum.

    I can ban users, but they can just sign up again with a different username. I can ban IP addresses, but it only takes a few seconds to delete a user so i'm not inclined to waste the time with the IP address avenue.

    Yes, I can ban words, but as you have pointed out, that's one more word that can't then be used in a legitimate post about the Henro, which seems unfair to me.

    So, as long as the spam is manageable i'm inclined to continue doing no more than deleting the posts and the users. Don may go the banning users and IP addresses route, I don't know what he'll do. We'll see.

    And, if we need more help, there's always the two of you out there. So, for now, i'm enjoying the conversation, but will stick with checking once a day for new spam and deleting it.

    Dave

    =====

    slc


    « Reply #22 on: Dec 7th, 2017, 08:26am »
    Sounds good to me. I'm just sharing info about what could be done if needed. Thank you and HenroDon for keeping things going!






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